Using natural reactions

[Jinen Kym]

So how many of you critics have tried jujitsu after years of kicking and punching and are of the opinion that "this stuff isn't going to work in the street!" I would agree but the main criticism I have is many jujitsuans string a few techniques together and while each element may have value they don't take into account natural reactions.

A good example is a counter to front bearhug being a strike to the groin, the natural action is a headbutt to your face.
How about counter to a headlock. Many hit the groin then say reach over the shoulder to grab the face, or the hair ( now that part wouldn't work on a lot of you guys ... hey Chris ) I find a hit to the groin tightens the grip, leans the assailant forward, then you have to bring their balance backwards. Wouldn't a pinch to the back of the knee get a better initial reaction? The head goes back toward the pain so is easier to reach, one leg is lifted and the balance is already going backwards. From this position we place the little finger under the nose giving a "lift, push back and then drive downward" motion to collapse the knees forward so the back will land across my knee. (take care)

So it's not just training for HAOPV but also understanding the "Habitual reactions" to applied techniques.

Have you seen the impossible scenario's? Do you use natural reactions to your advantage? Have you sceen a style lose it's way?

[andrewp]

A lot of those natural reactions your talking about can be programmed into your nervous systems by constant training and visualization.

Also most of the time we are not attacked by the Chrises (thank goodness) of this world....or the Kyms....as we know it is better to react than to act.

[unclefester]

Kym
Whilst it is possible that a strike to the groin may result in a tightening of the hold squeezing of the groinal region will reuslt in a totlaly different reaction. Having actually used it to escape a bear hug (from behind) I can attest to this fact! From ibn front I would always tuck my head in to save it. Same for a side head lock. tuck the head in to stop it from being hit, squeeze the testicles hard and one hand will automatically let go

[Jinen Kym]

Kym
Whilst it is possible that a strike to the groin may result in a tightening of the hold squeezing of the groinal region will reuslt in a totlaly different reaction. Having actually used it to escape a bear hug (from behind) I can attest to this fact! From ibn front I would always tuck my head in to save it. Same for a side head lock. tuck the head in to stop it from being hit, squeeze the testicles hard and one hand will automatically let go

You know the different reactions to striking and grabbing the groin but there are so many who miss the micro-application of a technique to bring about the favoured reaction, like a kick to the groin will bring the head into your punching range. In one clubs defence to a lapel grab they give a backhand slap to the face to startle the attacker and then try to effect an armbar. However a backhand slap to the neck (vagus nerve) may be more effective because it produced a wobble to the legs. Had that club lost something in the interpretation? My thing is that you must explore real reactions to be able to give real defence, actions and reactions. I think that is one of the things I picked up from the REACT book of self defence as it explored the SPEAR sysytem.

[flyfire]

Good points here. Over the years even predominantly in training muay thai clinch, I (And I'veNOt had anywhere near enough formal training in jujitsu/chin-na etc) have found that sometimes people in order to escape from various controlling clinch holds, wind themselves into a wristlock opportunity. For example, a fave of mine is when i have a tight overhook and opposite head control and start kneeing them etc, as they weave out their arm from the overhook, it goes straight into a goose-neck (?term Kym?? help!!) wristlock.
As for groin slaps, a krav guy did that REPEATEDLY while I had him in the Plam position. As hard as he could. I worked through the pain and nausea(not proud of this, just mentioning it cos it shows different potential reactions)which motivated me to break his nose in 3 places with an upward knee. I was throwing mock knees prior to that, but yeah once the slaps began...
On the other hand, i was ground-fighting this crazy Russian years ago (*ChrisG may remember him!), punched him in the groin when he gave me a little space from the mount. His reaction:reflexedly sprawled down and dropped, but accidentally dropping his elbow into my jaw, almost doing some serious damage.

[unclefester]

Kym
I totally gree that a lot of people miss the various applications on the way the body reacts. I get my students to try and work out some body reactions for themselves and then see what ill work in a variety of different applications. For instance you dont mind if the reaction brings the head and torse forwards if you want to say do a hip throw. The head/torso can go backwards for an osoto gari. When it comes around to belt testing time (certainly for the higher ranks) I try and see if they understand the various responses they will get. Hopefully most of them get it.

[Chrislg]

Many hit the groin then say reach over the shoulder to grab the face, or the hair ( now that part wouldn't work on a lot of you guys ... hey Chris )

HEY!!

On the other hand, i was ground-fighting this crazy Russian years ago (*ChrisG may remember him!), punched him in the groin when he gave me a little space from the mount. His reaction:reflexedly sprawled down and dropped, but accidentally dropping his elbow into my jaw, almost doing some serious damage.

I cant place which crazy Russian we are talking about - I know a few!

[Katana]

A good example is a counter to front bearhug being a strike to the groin, the natural action is a headbutt to your face.

I can guarantee that (if my students have been listening!) anyone I teach will headbutt an antagonist who grabs from the front as a natural reaction.

I try to hammer in to people that what you do in a moment of crisis is less important than the fact of doing something. In that sense, if the natural reaction is to bite, foot stomp, scratch, soil yourself or whatever, then I've been successful.