If you bully a bully...

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If you bully a bully...

Postby Shawn on Tue Feb 09, 2010 12:19 pm

Damo wrote:What I will say though, is that I'm an anti-bully. The scum in that video are nothing more than grown bullies, and I hope karma gives them the bitch slap from hell. (Even better if it's an MFA bitch slap!)


This comment prompted me to think of something I've pondered many times before... Ever since school, I've been known to pick on people that were bullies. I can recount a few instances in school where I ended up in scuffles with the local school bully. I thought that by giving the bully a bit of a hard time, it would stop him being a bully.

A while after, someone alerted me to the fact that most bullies were bullied themselves. I then thought that perhaps by giving them a hard time, it would just make them worse. I'm now somewhat undecided.

So, does bullying a bully make you a bully or a vigilante?
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Re: If you bully a bully...

Postby flyfire on Tue Feb 09, 2010 1:05 pm

Good point Shawn, and it raises a very complicated topic that many in the education system as well as psychologists from all sorts of different fields continue to tackle.

Apart from the very occasional born psychopath, you are right in that bullies themselves have suffered bullying and other more vicious and pervasive types of trauma in their young, developing lives. Now, before everyone accuses me of taking the side of the archetypal bully, I need to clarify that a persons past is no excuse for their current behaviours, and never will be, but will aid understanding objectively where it comes from. Hell, I was a victim of bullying myself, and like you Shawn, took a stand as a high school kid (Put one guys face through a locker door, and broke another's nose and ribs. The last one was bad, my friends had to pull me off the guy).

Bullies like all of us are subject to learning via conditioning. So if you take stand, yes you will reduce their bullying behaviour, but ONLY TO YOURSELF. Their defensive aggression (usually as guards against low self esteem, as a guard against feelings of humiliation and shame, as a means to shore up an illusory sense of control, as a means of displacing destructive impulses on unwanted aspects of themselves that are projected onto others etcetcetc ) however is not addressed, and thus usually displaced onto the next submissive victim.

SO, the solution is by no means an easy one. Some are lucky enough to have corrective, affirming life experiences ( including in some cases, good psychotherapy) that enables them to modify their behaviours, some will sublimate their psychological needs through a socially sanctioned activity where bullying type behaviors are rewarded ( I will not comment on administrators and the like hahaha), many will unfortunately descend into a criminal lifestyle and spent a lot of their lives in incarceration (and rightly so).

In other words, we do our best to protect ourselves, but I suggest we do not fall into vigilante, hero-complex mode. One could unwittingly make things worse for others. At least a lot of schools now are implementing reasonably thought-out policies that address the many facets of this complex social and interpersonal problem.
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Re: If you bully a bully...

Postby Zorbasan on Tue Feb 09, 2010 1:39 pm

shawn, the Dexter of the school yard. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dexter_Morgan)
Now you use head for something other than target.
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Re: If you bully a bully...

Postby Damo on Tue Feb 09, 2010 5:00 pm

Shawn wrote:So, does bullying a bully make you a bully or a vigilante?


Makes you a cop :laugh:
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Re: If you bully a bully...

Postby Shawn on Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:02 pm

Thanks for the awesome feedback Julian!
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Re: If you bully a bully...

Postby Chrislg on Wed Feb 10, 2010 11:19 am

Jules, I don't suppose you would be interested in getting together and putting an Anti-bully program together?
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Re: If you bully a bully...

Postby progdan on Wed Feb 10, 2010 1:24 pm

Damo wrote:
Shawn wrote:So, does bullying a bully make you a bully or a vigilante?


Makes you a cop :laugh:


haha good call...
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Re: If you bully a bully...

Postby flyfire on Thu Feb 11, 2010 2:09 pm

Always interested Chris, but as always also, TIME factor!

Also, have a look at this link: Stuart Twemlow is a professor of psychiatry/psychotherapist, and a high ranked expert in aikido, kenpo karate and eagle claw kung fu. he and his collaborators have done a lot in terms of anti-bully programs, parent advice and the like.

http://www.backoffbully.com/index.html
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Re: If you bully a bully...

Postby mitsi on Tue Feb 16, 2010 11:17 am

That's a really good insight into it J, and definately make alot of sense.
I was stupidly bullied in primary school because I was so different to the kids, only started to take stand in highschool, where i did end up int he principals office a couple of times...(but got a free lunch too!!)...

Would be great to see bullying solved, but it seems it is such an advance complexity that even the most experienced of people have trouble working out....... damn bullies.
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Re: If you bully a bully...

Postby andrewp on Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:27 pm

mitsi wrote:That's a really good insight into it J, and definately make alot of sense.
I was stupidly bullied in primary school because I was so different to the kids, only started to take stand in highschool, where i did end up int he principals office a couple of times...(but got a free lunch too!!)...

Would be great to see bullying solved, but it seems it is such an advance complexity that even the most experienced of people have trouble working out....... damn bullies.


It is part of mans nature (yes, more so than woman) to try to dominate....most people accept that in our society that it is wrong and teach their children it is wrong. Some on the other hand show the wrong example and even encourage it. I can't undersstand it myself....having been bullied.

Men and women are different as male bullying is more physical and female is more emotional. :puzzled:
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Re: If you bully a bully...

Postby Shawn on Sun Feb 21, 2010 7:33 pm

Do you suspect this behaviour leads back to some instinct from our primitive ancestory?
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Re: If you bully a bully...

Postby andrewp on Mon Feb 22, 2010 12:33 am

Shawn wrote:Do you suspect this behaviour leads back to some instinct from our primitive ancestory?


No....I think it is just an instinct we have always and will always have....we just control it better now....it is just our nature to commit....Habitual acts of Violence....but wait....I heard that phrase before somewhere.
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